The Japanese noise icons last visited Australia in 2012, where they their third record, the droning opus that is 2000’s Flood, in full. But such is the prolific nature of Boris recording career that they’ve released three new records since then, starting with their 18th record, Präparat, in 2013, followed by their latest record, Noise, in June of 2014, as well as the fourth and final instalment in The Thing Which Solomon Overlooked cycle.
Though Boris have built much of their legacy on an aesthetic rooted in noise rock, the trio have a Bowie-like tendency for reinvention, flirting with doom, shoegaze, sludge metal and drone in their near-two decade career. Yet Noise might be their most diverse — and, perhaps surprisingly, accessible — release to date. In spite of what the record’s title may suggest, Noise shows Boris at their most melodic, embracing the harmonious along with the dissonance that runs throughout their discography. More than anything, Boris are about adaptation, change and progress.
Here, guitarist and vocalist Takeshi discusses over email the creative process, the live show and the future of Boris.
You’ve been releasing records through Sargent House since 2011 – how has your experience with them as a label compared to your time with Southern Lord?
Takeshi: Whenever Boris work on new music we have always been conscious of its freshness. Since the day one we worked with Sargent House we could find another output, direction, connection with new people as well as unknown music. It has been great and healthy to be working with them.
Last time you played Australia, you were playing one of your most well-regarded albums, Flood, in full – are there any plans to revisit Pink as it turns 10 this year, or are you purely focused on new Boris music?
10 years have passed since the Pink release? I totally forgot about that. Well it may be hard for us to play an old album in its entirety for the show unless we have particular reason or concept to do. Nothing is more than great to play new songs and sound which is being updated day by day, and we’d prefer that.
The compelling thing about Boris is the diversity in your body of work, from the Earth-inspired doom of your early work to your fascinations with sludge, psych, shoegaze and doom to Noise, probably your most melodic and varied work to date. What is it that drives that evolution of sound from album to album?
Simply we have just enjoyed our music. ‘Good music is good’ and as far as it still means ‘heavy’ for us it doesn’t really a matter whatever genre or category has. We have our own signature sound that only three of us can make and it will never end.
You’ve collaborated with some highly influential artists in the world of drone, noise and rock – from Sunn O)) to Ian Astbury to Merzbow and Keiji Haino. Who are some other dream collaborators you’d like to work with?
Collaboration will not happen unless there is significance or necessity. It all depends on an encounter or certain opportunity, if there is no mutual communication each other on musical lever then that is going to be one-way and ‘everyone is acceptable’ for us, which doesn’t mean fruitful. Luckily enough Boris have met lots of great artists like a destiny, we have respected collaborators each other before we worked together. Our latest collaboration is with ENDON, who is one of the most updated extreme bands in Tokyo. If there is significance and necessity then that will lead us to another opportunity for collaboration.
In an interview with The Quietus last year, you talked about the Tokyo soundscape and the vitality of noise as a part of the Japanese psyche, saying that “noise is Japanese blues.” Was that something you realized when Boris was forming, or did it become apparent later on?
That was recognized me when Boris toured outside Japan for the first time. The more I encounter other cultures and customs and with seeing Japanese culture objectively from outside of Japan, the more I realize that is crucial. Of course it is so loud in downtown of every city, though so many massive noise and unnecessary voice information are flooded everywhere in Japan and no one says it is noisy and makes any complaint against it. On the other hand authorities are very strict with low frequencies inside of clubs or db-limit at open-air show here. It seems to be more comfortable for me when I have been in western countries, cities have more quiet spot everywhere. In general it tends to be considered that Japan or Japanese people respect and prefer silence or calm but I think they are just patient, or try to be, with whatever it sounds so loud or noisily.
With such a vast discography, how will you approach your live show on this tour in terms of designing a setlist and ensuring there’s a satisfactory representation of new and old material?
Basically Boris play the latest songs for the show though it is pretty hard to decide setlist, in order to have both new and long-term fans enjoy shows at once. For our own headline show we can play longer set with various sides of our musical aspect and direction, and for residency show like 2 days in each city which is enabling us to show totally different set both days. Boris have always tried to play enjoyable set not only for our audience but also for us.
Noise will be almost a year old by the time you come to Australia, and you have a reputation as a highly prolific band when it comes to recording – is there another Boris album coming soon?
Yes, we are currently focusing on recording and studio work. During the Live Noise Alive world tour to support Noise, we have found new and particular vision and concept for the next album. It is pretty exciting to devote ourselves to working on it. I hope this one is worth for you to wait for.
Boris “Live Noise Alive” Australia Tour
Brisbane — Crowbar — Wednesday May 27
Sydney — Newtown Social — Thursday May 28
Sydney — Newtown Social — Friday May 29
Melbourne — Corner Hotel — Saturday May 30
Adelaide — Fowler’s Live — Sunday May 31 (all ages and licensed)
In preparation for our fifth anniversary show at The Bakery in Perth (tonight!), we thought it would be neat to hear from life is noise’s head honcho about the the past, present and future of the company and the way the gig game has changed in his 20+ years of promoting shows. Enjoy.
Matthew Tomich: Before you started life is noise, you were the music director of RTRFM. What made you decide to leave that position and start your own company?
Dave Cutbush: I think I’d just done as much as I could’ve done at RTR and I wanted something different. I’d been there for six years and whilst it was a great job and there was a lot of opportunity in the early years to develop the position and develop what the station was doing, I found at the end it was becoming quite repetitive and I was ready for a new challenge. And as part of the role as Music Director at RTR, I did a lot of the events management and coordinating the fundraising events for the station. That went from being like one or two events to being a full calendar of 12 events. So in a way, on top of the other roles I had at the station, I was working as a promoter anyway. I was putting on lots of gigs for a long time and I’ve done that my whole life – my whole working life, I’ve put on shows. I suppose when I was entering the end of my tenure at RTR as Music Director, I thought: what am I going to do? And the obvious decision was to get back into promoting. I’d done a fair bit of promoting in the ‘90s both in terms of Perth shows for Perth bands and also touring stuff, but I thought at the end, well, it was the logical thing to do. So I thought, well, I’ll start up a business and when I was having a drink with a friend one night and I was throwing around a few names and the name life is noise came up and I thought, OK, I’ll do that. Also, at the same time I got an opportunity to go and teach at TAFE.
MT: Really?
DC: I got offered a full-time job teaching at TAFE, teaching radio. So I could’ve gone either way, and it probably would’ve been a more sensible thing to go and teach radio at TAFE. But I decided I love putting on shows, so that’s what I did.
MT: So – what were some of the tours you did in the 90s? Because I think I remember you told me you brought Tortoise out to Australia for the first time in like ’98, is that right? DC: Yeah. Well, not to Australia– I didn’t do any national tours in the ‘90s, but I did Perth legs of Australian tours and bits and pieces like that. I worked a lot with Spunk Records so I did a lot of their touring for artists like Joe Pernice and Smog and Trans Am and Tortoise and stuff like that. I did a few east coast things, brought over a few east coast bands, and because I was doing lots of managing of bands and venues and working in the Perth music industry, I did a lot of big Perth shows and that kind of thing in the ‘90s as well. But in terms of national touring, that’s only really come up in the last few years.
MT: And you’ve been promoting shows since you were a teenager, right? You started when you were 16 or 17?
DC: Yeah – I was in bands when I was a kid so me and my friends put on shows in the ‘80s, just like silly kind of things when I think of them now, when we were underage, and stuff like that. So it’s kind of something that I’ve done all of my adult life, on and off. It’s really weird to think that that’s almost like a different person who did that. It’s not me but it is me.
MT: So over the course of your career in the industry, what have been the most significant changes you’ve observed in the touring market both in Perth and the whole of Australia?
DC: There’s just a lot more on. I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently with this Perth Venue Action stuff about the way that things have changed over the last 20, 30 years, and I just think there’s obviously more competition for the entertainment dollar these days so there’s more going on in every kind of pursuit. We’re all sort of trying to get people’s entertainment dollar, whether that’s sport or it’s gaming or music or whatever people might do. I think if you go back 20, 30 years, there were less options. Now there’s a lot to do. And if you think about what’s happening in Perth, Perth’s changed a lot over the years. It’s gone from a small backwoods outpost to a city that has a lot more touring and a lot more events and just a lot more happening. I think, nationally, it’s pretty much the same – the change is similar from city to city – it’s just everything’s more complicated. And then when you think of actually how you market a gig, that’s very different. Back in the day – I hate that expression, but back in the day – you used to put an ad in X-Press and get an interview in RTR and put up a couple of posters and that was your promoting a gig or marketing a gig. Now, it’s vastly more complex. Social media, internet, everything that happens, you’ve got to try to hit people in a number of different ways, and the simplicity of just having a really good band and trying to get people to your gig by doing a full page in X-Press, that sort of thing — those days are gone. You’ve got to be much more sophisticated and it’s much more complicated with how to market your events. But generally, if you’ve got a good act that’s popular, people will come.
MT: Did you prefer it when it was a lot simpler to do in the 90s, when the promo was something you’d spend a couple of days worrying about?
DC: I think you were worried about it more than a couple of days but it was more simple. But it was more sort of hands-on, going out and flyering things. And I did that for many years, and only up until really recently, I used to always go out in Perth and put my own posters up and that kind of thing. No, I don’t think it was better then. It was just different. I like what happens now. I’m not one of those people that dwells in the past. I’ve never been like that. I like what’s happening now in terms of music and in terms of the way the world’s evolved. I like 2015 and beyond.
MT: The kind of stuff you present has always been really niche – how do you balance that risk and passion for that interesting, esoteric stuff with the financial realities of running a business?
DC: God, that’s a good question. Throughout my life, occasionally I’ve dabbled with things that are more populist in terms of music and I’ve really felt soulless doing it. Whether that be working as a booking agent or working in the media, especially at RTR, or as a promoter trying to do things because they’re popular, it just doesn’t sit well. My heart’s not in it, so I feel like I don’t give it my all if I’m doing something like that. So generally, I think it’s better for me personally to do something that I like and support music that I actually personally enjoy. Without going into examples, there were examples of things that I did back in the day like supporting artists or putting on gigs for artists that I wasn’t really into that much, and I just felt – I don’t know. I’m not really big on compromise anyway but I felt unclean or my soul wasn’t in it, my heart wasn’t in it. So I stopped doing that a long time ago, but that doesn’t really answer your question. It’s difficult to put on shows for marginal or niche acts, there’s no doubt. But in a way, if you’re buying an act or entering into a deal with an act that’s more niche, they’re going to be cheaper, whereas if you’re going for more mainstream acts, they’re going to be more expensive. So in effect, it really ends up being pretty similar, broadly speaking. As long as you do the right budget and you’ve done the math, you shouldn’t lose too much money because you really shouldn’t be spending that much money to start with. I’ve made stacks of mistakes, and I’ve made good pickups and good decisions as well, but it’s a risky business. Being a promoter is risky. And whether you’re a big scale promoter or a small scale promoter or in the middle, which I suppose I am, you’re going to make bad decisions and you’re going to make good decisions. It’s about trying to work out ways of getting by and not being too risky. I suppose that’s part of the excitement of it. It’s sort of like gambling. Some things work, some things don’t, but we’re still here and we’re doing OK.
MT: Do you feel like you have a better intuition for what works now than you did five years ago?
DC: Oh, absolutely. When I started life is noise, I thought I knew everything. And when you think you know everything, you really find out how little you do know. I learnt some really big lessons early on, in the first half a dozen shows we did, and I made huge mistakes. And I learnt a lot from those mistakes and from bigger things we did that weren’t as successful as I thought they were going to be. I think I know a lot more now, but I suppose I’m very careful in thinking I know everything. I’m learning something new every day in terms of how to put on tours and run shows and do things. And we did a lot of different things – obviously when we started we did Beaufort Street Festival, we did that for a couple of years and that was very different from touring. We did Slanted and Enchanted and This is Nowhere as well which were a couple of little mini Perth festival things. We’ve done a few different things over the years and we’ve got some big plans for the future in terms of stuff that’s not necessarily just touring Australia but maybe taking a few bands into Asia as well which is a pretty exciting prospect.
MT: What are you must proud of that you’ve presented? DC: I don’t think I’m necessarily more proud of one thing over another. Some of the things that haven’t been financially successful I’ve been really proud of. I think This is Nowhere was amazing and everyone had a great time, but it wasn’t financially successful. But it was a good platform in a way to do more touring and that changed the shape of the business. We started to get into national touring as a consequence of doing This is Nowhere because we did Tortoise and Grails nationally at the same time as doing that festival. So I think that was a really important turning point, that part of the business. Obviously starting up Beaufort Street Festival – which was incredibly difficult – was a great thing to do, to start that up. Personally, what I enjoy most – which is probably better than saying what I’m most proud of – is going to shows. And I’m in a very privileged circumstance where I can go see a band I really like five or six nights in a row and tour around the country and be friends with them and I love that. I love seeing music that I love night after night after night. It’s work and it’s not easy but it’s very enjoyable when you see a band that you love like Sleep or whoever play night after night. It’s great. But I’m sort of proud of everything.
MT: Are you still able to take your promoter hat off and appreciate stuff as a fan?
DC: Oh, absolutely. 100%. In the back of my mind when I’m watching a show that life is noise is putting on, I’m still thinking: is everything cool? Is the band safe? Is the crowd having fun? Does it sound great? And production things and every part of the show. But absolutely I can sit back there and watch. I stress as well – you don’t know if things are going to go right – but I very much am a fan when I’m watching a band that I love, whether we’re doing the show or somebody else is. It’s always much less stressful when somebody else is doing the show. Going and seeing Mogwai at Perth Festival was great because it’s not my show and I can just unwind and watch a band that I love. But it’s a different feeling when you put on a show. I mentioned Sleep and Sleep’s a good example. Doing that tour and watching, night after a night, a band that I love – and I’m part of the process of putting on that show – I feel pretty good about it.
MT: The 5th anniversary show is going to be one of the last shows at the Bakery before it closes this year – what are some of your favourite memories of that venue?
DC: Lots and lots of memories. Some really good dance music gigs, selling out Seekae there a couple of times, doing Slanted and Enchanted there was great. Seeing things like Jon Hopkins and that. Lots of good rock stuff, like the first Russian Circles time they came to Perth when it was chockers there and a really good lineup there as well of local bands that was fantastic. And not just my shows but other shows as well, I’ve loved being there. It hasn’t always been the easiest place to put on a show because of the nature of the organisation but it’s a great place and a great space and I think Perth is going to miss that venue, and I will personally, but I’m looking forward to having one last show there. I kind of thought New Year’s Eve would be the last show we have there but it’s nice to have Easter Thursday there as well because it’s a holiday the next day and people can have a big night.
MT: What drew you to the six acts that you’ve got performing at that show?
DC: I wanted a bit of variety and I wanted things that I like. Drowning Horse I love and they don’t play very often, mainly because their drummer lives in Melbourne, so we’re flying him out to Perth to play that show. They recently recorded a new record which sounds incredible and hopefully it will be released later this year so I’m looking forward to seeing those guys play because it doesn’t happen very often. Mt. Mountain I see every time they play in Perth because they’re just such a great band. They’re also in the midst of recording new stuff and hopefully taking it to the world because I think they’re a world class outfit and really should do very well when they get the new record out. Puck are just a really simple three-piece band that play noisy music and are well worth seeing. I enjoy playing their music on my radio show and it’s good for them to play live at this gig as well. Fait could be very successful as well. Elise Higgins used to come and help us out at life is noise a few years back and she told me that she had this post-rock project, and I was like, oh god, not another bloody post-rock project, I don’t need to listen to more post-rock – which I love – but I’ve just heard so much. And I listened to it and I thought, this is pretty good. Then I saw them play at their first gig and they were fucking incredible. I was really blown away at how the band translated that from Elise’s vision. Kaan played New Year’s Eve at the Bakery and were completely explosive and almost stole the show. They were great so it’ll be good to see them. They’re kind of heavy so it’ll be good to have one other heavy band to go with Drowning Horse. Chris Cobilis is a nut and I just love everything he’s done since I first saw the Tigers at the Grosvenor in the 1990s and his solo stuff is great as well. And Wil Bixler, I just wanted to have some dance music on the bill. He’s going to play a lot of jungle and I really like jungle, so he’ll play that and some gangster stuff, and that’ll be an interesting way to break it up from all this rock music as well. It’s kind of a diverse bill. There’s some heavy stuff and some rock stuff and some weird noise and other bits of pieces. Maybe it plots the history of the last five years of the music that life is noise has brought out, a bit of all sorts of things. I think it’ll be a good night to just come down and have a drink. I might buy a couple of drinks for people, or maybe they’ll buy them for me. But it’ll be fun.
MT: You mentioned before that you work with a lot of niche acts, and trying to balance that with financial constraints is always a struggle. If you could tour a band and not have to worry about money at all – if you could just bring a band to an Australian audience – who would that be?
DC: Wow. There’s a few but I’m sort of thinking about touring them anyway. I love Year of No Light but there’s six guys in the band and it’s super niche. So without completely losing a stack of cash, I’d love to do that. But it’s possible that that might happen. But someone’s going to have to lose money and it’s not going to be me. It’s always the bigger, the more bodies. There are stacks of bands that I’d like to bring out but the ones with six, seven, eight members make it more difficult. But some of those bands are more popular. When there’s a will there’s a way, I think for most of them, but some bands are just unfortunately too niche or just not popular enough to get a crowd to go and see them. And when you’re risking tens of thousands of dollars, it’s unfortunate you can’t do it. I can’t think of too many off the top of my head that are impossible at the moment, but certainly there are a few that are far more marginal. And unfortunately that means that I think a lot of our tours — and I’ve been talking about this for a while — but I think a lot of our tours will actually not come to Perth just because it’s just so expensive to get people here, and especially when you’ve got five, six people or more in the touring party, it becomes very difficult. But we’re looking to do some bigger and weirder and different things. I suppose in the last couple of years we’ve done lots of stoner stuff and metal and rock and we will this year as well, but I think from 2016 and beyond, the nature of the business is going to be a bit more varied. So whilst we will still do a lot of that kind of thing, and I hope we can continue to tour acts like Sleep and Russian Circles and Deafheaven and those kind of heavier acts that we’ve been touring – High on Fire and Earth, etcetera – I think 2016 onwards we’ll start diversifying a bit more and doing all sorts of things. I tend to get bored just doing one style of music, and whilst we’ve been pretty varied over the last couple of years, it’s all been heavier sort of things, so we’ll continue doing that, but we’ll do some other stuff as well. Maybe some world music. Maybe some jazz. Maybe some dance music, some indie rock. Who knows. But it will always be on the weirder end of the spectrum.
Come buy Cutter a beer (or maybe he’ll buy you one) at The Bakery tonight for our fifth anniversary with Drowning Horse, Mt. Mountain, Fait, Puck, Kaan, Chris Cobilis and DJ Wil Bixler. Tickers on sale through lifeisnoise.com. See you there.
You’d be hard pressed to find a band out there that is as engaging as EYEHATEGOD. If the emotional boilover that their sound embodies isn’t enough, certainly the character and gritty nature of the musicians’ stories are as powerful as they come. When you know the energy and words of songs bear a sincerity that only the roughest ride in life can provide, the music becomes that more amazing and vital an experience. I was lucky to chat this morning with the band’s frontman, Mike IX Williams, in anticipation of their forthcoming tour of Australia in early 2015.
Black Captain:Hey Mike, how’s everything with you today?
Mike IX Williams: Everything’s fine, man. Just doing these interviews, a couple so far, and hanging out. I just got home from being on tour, but leave again in a couple of days to go out with my other band, Corrections House. So, I’m exhausted. But, besides that, I’m good.
BC:The EYEHATEGOD album has been out for about half a year now. How has the response to that and your feeling about it been, particularly given the amount of time since your last LP?
MW: I’m super-excited, man, of course! The whole band were really excited. I mean, we’ve been active this whole time, for the past 14 years. We’ve done some 7-inches and done things like that, recorded some demos here and there, but never got as far as putting out the whole record and doing it all right. So we’re excited that it has all been happening. We’ve been touring. There’s people who think that just because we didn’t have a new record we weren’t together. I’d see articles that are like, “EYEHATEGOD’s back together!” But we never were away. We’ve toured Europe, and America. You know, we were in Australia like maybe three or four years ago, I’m not sure. We’ve just constantly toured. It was just a matter of putting out that full-length that people want to see.
BC: As you say, you’ve been really busy. And it’s been such an eventful period, too. Obviously, the biggest thing was the loss of such a big personality in the band when your drummer and founding member, Joey La Caze, passed away. It’s not been unknown to happen that when a band loses such an iconic person, a part of who they are both on a creative and a personal level, that replacement members have difficulty working out. It’s really admirable how different this has been in your guys’ particular case with Aaron.
MW: Yeah, man! I think we really lucked out, man. We got super lucky with that. You know, like, we tried out drummers from bigger bands, bands on our same level, or guys who really wanted to join. But nobody had that, like, that real New Orleans swing sound like Joey had. Aaron’s from here. So, he has it naturally. Besides that, he was right under our nose. We were looking outside of the state. But he was right here. And he’s been working out great, man. He fits right in. He’s a weirdo! (laughs) So he fits perfectly with us. And he’s an amazing drummer. He likes the songs. And… he likes being on tour with us… I think! (laughs) We’re a little bit older than him, some of us. So, we kind of mess with him sometimes. But that’s part of him being a new guy in the band. But, yeah, he’s awesome! He’s working out great. Not to mention, I know he likes getting paid, so… he’s going to stick around for a while!
BC: You’ve described him before as bringing in a breath of fresh air and really setting you guys off on a roll with writing new material. How has that been going? Are you still going strong with that, even so soon after making the new record?
MW: Yeah! I haven’t written anything yet; because, they’re still putting the songs together. And things always evolve as they are initially written. I think there’s, like, six songs written or something, you know. I’m sure they’ll change a bit in the process; and, then, of course, I’ll put my vocals on later. That’s usually how we work. But I mean, yeah, it’s awesome. Aaron’s a musician. You know, he plays guitar. He plays mandolin. He plays banjo. He plays drums. He’s like an all-around musician type of guy, you know? Mandolin is like a big instrument down here in the south, because a lot of, like, Cajun music has it, you know. He learned it from his grandfather, which was really cool. He’s got video of him and his grandfather playing together; and, it’s really neat to watch. So, he’s a real songwriter and he loves music. He’s definitely a breath of fresh air for (the other) guys too, to be able to bring in guitar parts and that sort of stuff, too.
BC: Wow. Like you say, it sounds like you guys were really lucky and that you’ve really hit it out of the park with finding this guy.
MW: Yeah, man, I think we did really well there.
BC: Just talking about that newer stuff. some bands prefer to keep new stuff completely under wraps until a record is released. Do you ever give any of your new stuff a whirl when you’re out on tour before you’ve recorded or released it?
MW: Um, not this brand new stuff that we’re writing now. But, like, with the new self-titled album stuff we did play a lot of those songs live before I even had vocal patterns ready for them. Some of those cases are where I even learned the songs. We’d dealt with them in sound checks, and if we thought it sounded decent we’d do it in the live show. Of course, nobody knows what it is, because it’s new and they just kind of, like, stare at you! But it’s good to work that kind of thing out live, especially for me, because I can think of vocal patterns in my head and it comes to me like at the spur of the moment. It works out well for me like that.
BC: I see EYEHATEGOD referred to by writers quite often as the progenitor of “sludge” but I know that’s a term that you have a lot of disdain for. Especially as a lot more hybridization and experimentation appears to go on in less mainstream music, do you think these tags are losing their relevance more than ever or that they were never really that relevant beyond being a marketing tool?
MW: Yeah, you know… (pauses) I mean, it’s like, for journalists… I mean, I used to write for Metal Maniacs and write for websites; so, I understand that people have to come up with these descriptions like this. Because, that’s what doing record reviews is all about. You’ve got to try to describe what something is like to people who might like a different kind of band or music. So, yeah, those things come up. But I do think it is over-used nowadays. There’s so many subgenres. And, I’m like, where does all of this come from? Why can’t it just be all under one banner? I mean, we just call it, like, rock’n’roll or heavy blues, you know? To me, that’s more intelligent that saying something like “sludge”. Besides, the fact is that EYEHATEGOD was around well before that term was even invented, so… people might say it about us, but… people have asked me, “So, who are your favourite sludge bands?” and I’m like (with an irritated tone) “What does that even mean? What is that? What is it?” I’m thinking, is it bands that sound like us? Is it bands that play, like, you know, all slow songs. It’s just one of those things that just appeared and it’s kind of annoying for me. I’d rather just be a heavy blues band.
BC: “Post” is the one that really gets thrown around a lot now! I was talking about this with a friend recently and he asked “how long is it going to be before we start hearing about post-post-metal and post-post-hardcore bands?”
MW: (laughs) Yeah, I’m sure there will be, like, post-sludge. Post-black metal-sludge, that’ll probably be something. You know. But, hey, you know I suppose of course I use some of these terms. Like I’ll say, “indie rock”, or… I just hate using words like “grunge”. It seems silly to me. It’s just another form of punk and rock’n’roll, you know. But, when you get to like black metal or thrash metal, that’s something where it’s like the best way to describe those things; so, you fall into that trap.
BC: I knew you’d worked as a music journalist in the past and was thinking about that in the context of your writing style. Do you think there’s a point to trying to be more poetic and lyrical in reviewing music rather than going for the simplicity of these marketing buzzwords?
MW: Yeah. Like, when I used to write for Metal Maniacs… my style of writing lyrics is really abstract and cryptic. So, sometimes, I would do a record review that was like that. And to me, it would make total sense. But, I remember some of the editors just being like, “You can’t! Nobody knows what you’re talking about here! You’re being very vague and cryptic.” But, in my head it made sense, describing a certain band like that. So, I don’t know. It depends on the intelligence of the largesse of people reading it, you know. Some people need to be told just like, “Ok. This sounds like Slayerrrr. This sounds like Black Sabbath.” Some people just need to be told that, or they will never figure it out. I mean, the weirdest thing I think I ever read about EYEHATEGOD was somebody writing that “it sounds like Carcass meets The Circle Jerks”. That’s not even close to anywhere…. What does that mean, man? I don’t get it! That’s some really absurd references right there. Maybe they are geniuses and they hear it and I don’t. Maybe they’re smarter and they hear some kind of crazy, you know, alignment to those two bands. I don’t know.
BC: Ah, might have put the wrong record on, I reckon.
MW: (laughs) It’s just a very strange comparison.
BC: Those succinct phrases or words that are meant to be loaded with influence… that leads me on to something I’d read from you once that I connected with. This opening track of the new album (“Agitation! Propaganda!”) is a favourite of mine, at the very least just for its title and lyrics, as it’s a topic I’ve always been fixated on. So it was exciting to read that you also have a pretty deep fascination with propaganda and its function. What did you think of Orwell’s stuff on this, and what he had to say about the function of words when it comes to control?
MW: Well, I’ve read 1984. That’s the memorable one. To me, that whole book is just incredible. I’d have to go back to it, though. I don’t think I’ve read that since I was, like, in my 20s. Yeah, I think it’s very powerful. And, yeah, I love (propaganda). I don’t love what happens as a result of it. But the way that they used propaganda in World War II. Even the Americans, of course. It wasn’t just Nazi Germany. There was propaganda being thrown all over the place. And, of course, the Russian movements in the early Stalinist period is a great study in propaganda. But then you think about modern days, you’re going down the highway, especially here in America it just seems to be cluttered with advertisements. “Smoke this! Drink this! And eat this! Trust Jesus!” You know, these big signs that will just say “TRUST JESUS”. That’s propaganda too; it’s just wild. A lot of people are just subliminally falling into it, too.
BC: The massive preoccupation with celebrity. “Justin Bieber got arrested! Kim Kardashian can hold a champagne glass with her arse!”
MW: Yeah, that’s “news”, but you have to go back three or four sections deep into the newspaper to find out what’s going on in Somalia or a war in some other country. It’s just crazy, man. I don’t know what they’re trying to do with us; but, they are controlling a lot of people with it.
BC: As you say, you write your lyrics being abstract and non-specific, a reflection of your commitment and love for poetry As a writer, do you feel that lyrics lose their ability to be more resonant or powerful if they are becoming too direct, or closely linked to a story or a topic?
MW: Yeah, I do think that. I mean, a lot of people have asked, “Were you forced to write lyrics after Hurricane Katrina?” Yes, but you won’t really figure out which ones. It’s kind of hidden. There are things that I felt, or saw, or did that are in the lyrics. But, it’s not literal. It’s not like I’m saying (in a sort of country/western cadence) “’til the hurricane hit and then this hap-pened”… it’s not literal like that. I don’t think I could do lyrics like that, you know? Even if the topic is obvious, like being hateful. I don’t know if you’ve heard one of my other bands, Arson Anthem, it’s like 80s hardcore stuff. It’s all pretty pissed off. So, you kind of know what the songs are about but the lyrics are still kind of weird and vague. I just like for people to think, too. I think it’s kind of cool to make people give me their interpretations of songs, sometimes. Sometimes, I’ll write something that I don’t even know what it means,; and, somebody will write to me or tell me in person, “That song made me think of this.” And, I’m like, “Wow, that’s actually pretty cool.” Because I didn’t think of that and it’s very cool. Like they’ll give me the answer. So, it’s cool that the lyrics can mean different things to different people. If they were real focused and forward like that, then they could only mean that one thing.
BC: Keeping it open like that makes for much more powerful potential.
MW: Yeah, I think so. And I’ve never been a fan… I mean, when I was a teenager, when I was a kid, of course I was into punk rock and hardcore. And some of those lyrics were pretty cheesy back then. I got out of that quickly and just started thinking that things didn’t have to rhyme all of the time, that you don’t have to care about all of these “laws” of lyric writing or poetry writing. You make up your own rules and ideas.
BC: You’ve spoken of your love of New Orleans and how it’s a part of your very being and how you express yourself. I’ve not had the chance before to talk with someone from there about Katrina and what happened afterwards and how it was responded to so poorly by emergency services and relief efforts. Do you agree with the notion that there was something ideological being directed at that part of the country, sort of an expression of resentment and contempt at its European and iconoclastic, hedonistic nature? Or was it simply just that old chestnut of government not being able to even organize a fuck in a whorehouse?
MW: I think it’s both, really! A combination. New Orleans, it’s a liberal city in a Republican state. The whole state is like these gun-totin’, rich, redneck folks. Most of them. I mean, there’s a lot of poor people, too, but, in the rest of the state. New Orleans is, like you said, very hedonistic. You can drink 24 hours a day. But there’s also, basically, 85% African-American. There’s also a lot of poverty here, white people as well. So, I think it’s like, “We’ll go help ‘em in a couple of days. Let’s see how many of ‘em can die off.” I really kind of think that, you know? I mean, that’s what happened with me. I had no money, at the time. I didn’t have a way to leave the city. I finally did, but, it was hard to do without a car. Most of those people don’t have anything like that. Like you said, it is a part of Bush being an incompetent idiot, and… what was that other thing you said?
MW: Yeah! I totally believe that. I think a lot of people just think that we get away with anything down here. We are very European, and very liberal. So there are people who just really hate that. People are against that and can’t stand it. They want it all to be… rigid, and strict rules. If it was up to them there would be no alcohol or anything like that. It’s pretty crazy.
BC: I wanted to ask what are some ways that living life sober has changed your experience of being in EYEHATEGOD? By this I guess I mean is there anything you feel more in touch with now that you may have been, for lack of a better word, oblivious to before?
MW: Did you say sober?
BC: Yeah.
MW: Did you say… sober?
BC: Yeah. I get the feeling I’m off base…
MW: (laughs hard) I’m not sober, man. I don’t do hard drugs any more. That’s been for a while. But, I definitely love to have a little smoke or a drink here and there. I actually have to cut down a bit on my alcohol because of some health problems. I can’t really drink hard liquor now any more, either. I’m having a few things… as you get older, vodka every day isn’t exactly good for you! But, yeah, as far as that other stuff goes, I’m not into anything hard any more. That’s all over. But, you know, we all like to have fun. Especially drinking, or a little something here and there, nothing wrong with that! A little relaxation tool, you know? I think my problem has been with moderation. Like I say, I was on the hard stuff. I stopped that, so I started drinking vodka. After so many years, I can feel that it’s not doing my body well. So, I need to moderate things, you know. There’s nothing wrong with those things at all, smoking a little pot, or drinking. But you can’t be doing all that and expect that it’s good for you. And I definitely don’t encourage people to try any of those things. They’re definitely not missing anything by not doing heroin or coke. It’s pretty crappy, really. I would never want to see myself get back to that state of mind, where that’s all you do all day every day, where you’re just trying to get that next bag of heroin or something. So, I suggest people stay away from that. And I have. So, I’m glad for that. I’ve added a few years on to my life, I hope.
BC: Well, there should be sweltering heat when you kick off down here. It will be interesting to see how that adds to the unpredictable explosiveness your shows are notorious for!
MW: (laughs) Well, we’re used to the heat! That’s New Orleans, heat and humidity. So, we’re very used to it. It’s actually cold here right now and will be worse when we head down there. So it will be nice to be there. It never gets really cold here; but, it gets cold enough that we hate it. We prefer the heat!
BC: Thanks for that, Mike. It was really fantastic to talk with you and can’t wait to see you all down here next year.
MW: Thanks, man. I appreciate the interview and we see all of you soon!
EYEHATEGOD AUSTRALIA TOUR
Thursday January 29 — Rosemount Hotel, Perth
with Leeches and Cursed Earth Friday January 30 — The Hi-Fi, Melbourne
with I Exist and The Ruiner Saturday January 31 — Manning Bar, Sydney
with I Exist and Lo! Sunday February 1 — Crowbar, Brisbane
with I Exist and The Matador
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Torche are renowned worldwide for their superb blend of emotive catchiness and flesh-stripping heaviness. Emerging out of Miami, Florida, the band’s distinctive sound is the product of the coming together of a wide range of collective influences and experience. Having existed as both a four-piece then a trio, Torche returned to playing with four members in 2011 with the recruitment of guitarist and vocalist Andrew Elstner. Recently, I caught up with the very amiable newest member of the band to talk things Torche ahead of their Australian tour in October.
BC: It’s been a few years now since you joined the band. How did being part of Torche come about?
AE: I used to play in a band called Riddle of Steel. We were on Robotic Empire, and our second record came out the same year that Torche’s first came out on Robotic. So, we were in that circle of bands around Andy Low from Robotic, and played some shows down in Florida with Torche. So when Juan was no longer playing with Torche, after about a two-year gap of them being a three-piece I think they’d had enough of it and Steve contacted me by e-mail. I went down and jammed with them in Gainesville. I was still living in St. Louis at the time. It went really well. And, I found out I was in the band after jamming with them for about a week all day and all night when they introduced me to one of their friends as “the new guitar player.”
BC: So you went into a band that already had quite a big following. What are some of the biggest changes for you since joining up with Torche?
AE: Oh man, from the first moment that I started playing shows with these guys, it’s been different. You walk into a venue and the attitude is different [laughs]. People treat you a little bit better, with a little bit more respect… understandably so I guess as there are a million bands and a lot of them are garbage. It’s been a blast. I can’t say that enough. All of a sudden, guitar and pedal companies are interested in you using their equipment. So you start to get a bunch of free stuff. I feel like I’m on a rider, to be honest! Not that I haven’t been busting my ass for the last, you know, 20 years playing in bands. But, I joined as a fan, so it’s been nuts, heaps of fun.
BC: You’re also active in another band, Tilts. You released some new material with them earlier this year. Do you still get the time you’d like to be able to have to work with your other projects?
AE: Yeah, we put out the Cuatro Hombres album in June. Those guys are old friends of mine. I think we’ve known each other since were about 17 or 18 years old, more or less. But it’s like you think you never really have enough time to do anything. I’m in Atlanta now and those guys are in St. Louis and have the full-time job gig, families. So between playing with Torche full-time and everyone’s real life schedules, we get in whenever we can and take advantage of every opportunity, say if I’m home for the holidays or whatever. But, you know, even with a limited timeframe we have no reason to cut it off altogether. We have a good time when we catch up and work together.
BC: Well, along with the close personal bond with those guys, I think a lot of people who are creative like to have different outlets to work with, too.
AE: Totally! Totally, it keeps things fresh, keeps you on your toes writing-wise with any band that you’re in. It keeps ideas flowing and you learn to work with people in different ways. As a band sometimes you can get stuck with a particular pattern of writing or how you do things. It definitely keeps you sharp.
BC: Growing up, what attracted you to playing heavy music?
AE: I grew up with a very musical family. Music was always around. But, you know, it’s kind of strange. I think it’s more like heavy music sort of finds you, rather than the other way around. You hear it, and you can’t move. It’s like, the first time… I went over to a friend’s house and he had a guitar. I was 12 and I didn’t play guitar at all. And, like, he just turned it on and played a low E string through a distortion pedal and it just absolutely flattened me (laughs). Like I couldn’t breathe. I’m like, “Oh my god, I have to play this!” From there, I guess… I liked rock music, heavy music. I guess I got bit by the bug. It’s like being struck by lightning. I still love Black Sabbath, but you know that first time, you sort of forget what it’s like that first time you hear something like ‘Sweet Leaf’ cranked through a stereo. It might not have that same effect now; but, at the time, it’s absolutely destroying. It’s a feeling like you don’t have a choice. ‘I have to do this now.’ I still feel the same way, you know, playing guitar with the band. It’s just something that happened at random, and here I am, still.
BC: Random but monumental! In some other interviews in the past I’ve read you talk about how other music being produced out there now doesn’t really excite you that much. What do you think it is? Lack of imagination and innovation? Oversaturation?
AE: Yeah, you know, I guess just a lot of stuff doesn’t grab me the way a lot of the older bands do, even stuff from the 1980s. I mean, there’s plenty of stuff now that I love. The quality of the songwriting though is just so tough to match. I know it’s just my opinion. Nobody should feel like it’s true. Depending on the band, people will sort of scoff at this, but I think if you just strip away a lot of the flash, there was just this really incredible, deep sort of songwriting, whether it’s a turn of phrase or a cool bridge or really interesting outro or to break up a verse or a chorus. It was just really creative, really talented songwriting, which is still my goal. It’s not so much technique or a tone, you know, just how to do the coolest thing possible with the least amount of effort. Economising the songwriting, stripping away all the bullshit, and making it as powerful and as direct as possible. So, you know, it’s like I’m saying I’m too cool to write this music that’s around now, as like I said there is still plenty that I like, even in heavy music. Like, I think Part Chimp from the UK is amazing. There are plenty of bands from all over that have something interesting about what they are doing. But you know, it just seems few and far between. Perhaps that’s just part of getting older! Seen it, done it.
BC: It is interesting talking to bands who are making, at least what I think, the most captivating music now seem to have that common thread of a deep respect for what was going on in the 70s and 80s, when it was really cutting edge and exciting to be making this heavy and progressive kind of music but that had to do it in a more stripped down and less technological and frilly approach, just like you are describing.
AE: Yeah, yeah, I guess like I’m describing two things really as I can get down to, say, a Toto album as much as I can get down with… like… I can appreciate, say, the yacht rock of the 80s, or something like the Beatles where the songwriting is, to me, just absolutely mystifying. I can’t imagine how those songs were written, in an admiring sort of way.
BC: It’s common to hear musicians speak of working on the road being something that can be a very punishing and difficult way of life, in contrast to what is perhaps romanticised about it. What are some of the things about touring that you enjoy or that are difficult for you?
AE: You know, I really love it. Touring gives you a sense of purpose. The playing of the shows, seeing old friends, meeting new people, especially when you’re touring with a band that you’ve never played with before and you develop really tight bonds… even if you’re not good friends at the beginning, or if it’s a band you might not really like musically, at the end you can end up becoming really good friends. That’s been my experience, at least. There is what I guess you could call a kind of terminal exhaustion. It is hard to describe just how tiring it is, which is always a big deal. Even if you’re sleeping in hotels, there’s a lot of driving, there’s a lot of sitting, there’s a lot of waiting. But I really have nothing to complain about. I don’t think I have to dig for something that I hate about touring. I mean you miss your home, you miss your friends, but it never feels like a sacrifice to me. A lack of sleep, definitely (laughs). That’s brutal. And it’s tough, because you want every night to be a blast, to be a party. You’re out for two weeks, or two months, and in a different city every night. You run into different folks and they haven’t seen you in over a year. So everybody is ready to party and buy you shots and beer. So you want to keep up, but if you try and do that for about a week straight it will just ruin you [laughs]. You just can’t. You start to hate yourself, start to hate each other. You have to pace yourself or at least make it look like you’re partying! It’s taxing, but what else am I going to do? I love it.
BC: What’s the update with Torche’s new record? Have you been able to finish that or is it mainly about touring at the moment for you guys?
AE: We’ve got a new album in the works. It’s recorded, mixed, mastered. The art is done. It’s coming out through Relapse in February. No date set yet for sure. It took a little bit longer to get the mixing, mastering and the artwork all settled. I believe… I’m pretty sure it’s going to be called Restarter. There’s been some discussion about that and I believe… I mean I’m in the band! Restarter, and it’s coming out in February. And I really can’t wait to start playing these new songs out there live.
BC: Finally, I have to ask. Are you sick of talking about that fucking bat yet?
AE: [laughs] Oh man… I knew that was going to come!
BC: It must have been really weird to watch this personal story just take off like that.
AE: That’s always been the strangest thing to me, man! Like… how? Just some weird, totally random event, timed perfectly by the way with the release of the Tilts record and the new Torche record, just so bizarre. It sort of gave somebody else just another reason to talk about the band! The strangest thing was like you say just how far it went. I had people e-mailing me from overseas asking me if I was OK. Within 24 or 48 hours of me posting this totally random update on Facebook I’m doing phone interviews with MSN.com and MTV news and other people, just really really strange.
BC: Speaks to the obsessive nature of music!
AE: Yeah and the attractiveness of just a weird story.
BC: Thanks, it was really great to talk with you today, Andrew, and all the best for your tour here in Australia.
AE: Likewise, man! Thanks so much.
Catch Torche on their first Australian tour on the following dates:
Thursday October 16 – Crowbar, Brisbane
with Lizzard Wizzard and Indica
Saturday October 18 – Corner Hotel, Melbourne
with Child and DEAD
Sunday October 19 — Oxford Art Factory, Sydney
with Lo! and Sumeru
Tickets on sale from lifeisnoise.com, Oztix, Moshtix and venue outlets.
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