In preparation for our fifth anniversary show at The Bakery in Perth (tonight!), we thought it would be neat to hear from life is noise’s head honcho about the the past, present and future of the company and the way the gig game has changed in his 20+ years of promoting shows. Enjoy.
Matthew Tomich: Before you started life is noise, you were the music director of RTRFM. What made you decide to leave that position and start your own company?
Dave Cutbush: I think I’d just done as much as I could’ve done at RTR and I wanted something different. I’d been there for six years and whilst it was a great job and there was a lot of opportunity in the early years to develop the position and develop what the station was doing, I found at the end it was becoming quite repetitive and I was ready for a new challenge. And as part of the role as Music Director at RTR, I did a lot of the events management and coordinating the fundraising events for the station. That went from being like one or two events to being a full calendar of 12 events. So in a way, on top of the other roles I had at the station, I was working as a promoter anyway. I was putting on lots of gigs for a long time and I’ve done that my whole life – my whole working life, I’ve put on shows. I suppose when I was entering the end of my tenure at RTR as Music Director, I thought: what am I going to do? And the obvious decision was to get back into promoting. I’d done a fair bit of promoting in the ‘90s both in terms of Perth shows for Perth bands and also touring stuff, but I thought at the end, well, it was the logical thing to do. So I thought, well, I’ll start up a business and when I was having a drink with a friend one night and I was throwing around a few names and the name life is noise came up and I thought, OK, I’ll do that. Also, at the same time I got an opportunity to go and teach at TAFE.
MT: Really?
DC: I got offered a full-time job teaching at TAFE, teaching radio. So I could’ve gone either way, and it probably would’ve been a more sensible thing to go and teach radio at TAFE. But I decided I love putting on shows, so that’s what I did.
MT: So – what were some of the tours you did in the 90s? Because I think I remember you told me you brought Tortoise out to Australia for the first time in like ’98, is that right?
DC: Yeah. Well, not to Australia– I didn’t do any national tours in the ‘90s, but I did Perth legs of Australian tours and bits and pieces like that. I worked a lot with Spunk Records so I did a lot of their touring for artists like Joe Pernice and Smog and Trans Am and Tortoise and stuff like that. I did a few east coast things, brought over a few east coast bands, and because I was doing lots of managing of bands and venues and working in the Perth music industry, I did a lot of big Perth shows and that kind of thing in the ‘90s as well. But in terms of national touring, that’s only really come up in the last few years.
MT: And you’ve been promoting shows since you were a teenager, right? You started when you were 16 or 17?
DC: Yeah – I was in bands when I was a kid so me and my friends put on shows in the ‘80s, just like silly kind of things when I think of them now, when we were underage, and stuff like that. So it’s kind of something that I’ve done all of my adult life, on and off. It’s really weird to think that that’s almost like a different person who did that. It’s not me but it is me.
MT: So over the course of your career in the industry, what have been the most significant changes you’ve observed in the touring market both in Perth and the whole of Australia?
DC: There’s just a lot more on. I’ve been thinking about this a lot recently with this Perth Venue Action stuff about the way that things have changed over the last 20, 30 years, and I just think there’s obviously more competition for the entertainment dollar these days so there’s more going on in every kind of pursuit. We’re all sort of trying to get people’s entertainment dollar, whether that’s sport or it’s gaming or music or whatever people might do. I think if you go back 20, 30 years, there were less options. Now there’s a lot to do. And if you think about what’s happening in Perth, Perth’s changed a lot over the years. It’s gone from a small backwoods outpost to a city that has a lot more touring and a lot more events and just a lot more happening. I think, nationally, it’s pretty much the same – the change is similar from city to city – it’s just everything’s more complicated. And then when you think of actually how you market a gig, that’s very different. Back in the day – I hate that expression, but back in the day – you used to put an ad in X-Press and get an interview in RTR and put up a couple of posters and that was your promoting a gig or marketing a gig. Now, it’s vastly more complex. Social media, internet, everything that happens, you’ve got to try to hit people in a number of different ways, and the simplicity of just having a really good band and trying to get people to your gig by doing a full page in X-Press, that sort of thing — those days are gone. You’ve got to be much more sophisticated and it’s much more complicated with how to market your events. But generally, if you’ve got a good act that’s popular, people will come.
MT: Did you prefer it when it was a lot simpler to do in the 90s, when the promo was something you’d spend a couple of days worrying about?
DC: I think you were worried about it more than a couple of days but it was more simple. But it was more sort of hands-on, going out and flyering things. And I did that for many years, and only up until really recently, I used to always go out in Perth and put my own posters up and that kind of thing. No, I don’t think it was better then. It was just different. I like what happens now. I’m not one of those people that dwells in the past. I’ve never been like that. I like what’s happening now in terms of music and in terms of the way the world’s evolved. I like 2015 and beyond.
MT: The kind of stuff you present has always been really niche – how do you balance that risk and passion for that interesting, esoteric stuff with the financial realities of running a business?
DC: God, that’s a good question. Throughout my life, occasionally I’ve dabbled with things that are more populist in terms of music and I’ve really felt soulless doing it. Whether that be working as a booking agent or working in the media, especially at RTR, or as a promoter trying to do things because they’re popular, it just doesn’t sit well. My heart’s not in it, so I feel like I don’t give it my all if I’m doing something like that. So generally, I think it’s better for me personally to do something that I like and support music that I actually personally enjoy. Without going into examples, there were examples of things that I did back in the day like supporting artists or putting on gigs for artists that I wasn’t really into that much, and I just felt – I don’t know. I’m not really big on compromise anyway but I felt unclean or my soul wasn’t in it, my heart wasn’t in it. So I stopped doing that a long time ago, but that doesn’t really answer your question. It’s difficult to put on shows for marginal or niche acts, there’s no doubt. But in a way, if you’re buying an act or entering into a deal with an act that’s more niche, they’re going to be cheaper, whereas if you’re going for more mainstream acts, they’re going to be more expensive. So in effect, it really ends up being pretty similar, broadly speaking. As long as you do the right budget and you’ve done the math, you shouldn’t lose too much money because you really shouldn’t be spending that much money to start with. I’ve made stacks of mistakes, and I’ve made good pickups and good decisions as well, but it’s a risky business. Being a promoter is risky. And whether you’re a big scale promoter or a small scale promoter or in the middle, which I suppose I am, you’re going to make bad decisions and you’re going to make good decisions. It’s about trying to work out ways of getting by and not being too risky. I suppose that’s part of the excitement of it. It’s sort of like gambling. Some things work, some things don’t, but we’re still here and we’re doing OK.
MT: Do you feel like you have a better intuition for what works now than you did five years ago?
DC: Oh, absolutely. When I started life is noise, I thought I knew everything. And when you think you know everything, you really find out how little you do know. I learnt some really big lessons early on, in the first half a dozen shows we did, and I made huge mistakes. And I learnt a lot from those mistakes and from bigger things we did that weren’t as successful as I thought they were going to be. I think I know a lot more now, but I suppose I’m very careful in thinking I know everything. I’m learning something new every day in terms of how to put on tours and run shows and do things. And we did a lot of different things – obviously when we started we did Beaufort Street Festival, we did that for a couple of years and that was very different from touring. We did Slanted and Enchanted and This is Nowhere as well which were a couple of little mini Perth festival things. We’ve done a few different things over the years and we’ve got some big plans for the future in terms of stuff that’s not necessarily just touring Australia but maybe taking a few bands into Asia as well which is a pretty exciting prospect.
MT: What are you must proud of that you’ve presented?
DC: I don’t think I’m necessarily more proud of one thing over another. Some of the things that haven’t been financially successful I’ve been really proud of. I think This is Nowhere was amazing and everyone had a great time, but it wasn’t financially successful. But it was a good platform in a way to do more touring and that changed the shape of the business. We started to get into national touring as a consequence of doing This is Nowhere because we did Tortoise and Grails nationally at the same time as doing that festival. So I think that was a really important turning point, that part of the business. Obviously starting up Beaufort Street Festival – which was incredibly difficult – was a great thing to do, to start that up. Personally, what I enjoy most – which is probably better than saying what I’m most proud of – is going to shows. And I’m in a very privileged circumstance where I can go see a band I really like five or six nights in a row and tour around the country and be friends with them and I love that. I love seeing music that I love night after night after night. It’s work and it’s not easy but it’s very enjoyable when you see a band that you love like Sleep or whoever play night after night. It’s great. But I’m sort of proud of everything.
MT: Are you still able to take your promoter hat off and appreciate stuff as a fan?
DC: Oh, absolutely. 100%. In the back of my mind when I’m watching a show that life is noise is putting on, I’m still thinking: is everything cool? Is the band safe? Is the crowd having fun? Does it sound great? And production things and every part of the show. But absolutely I can sit back there and watch. I stress as well – you don’t know if things are going to go right – but I very much am a fan when I’m watching a band that I love, whether we’re doing the show or somebody else is. It’s always much less stressful when somebody else is doing the show. Going and seeing Mogwai at Perth Festival was great because it’s not my show and I can just unwind and watch a band that I love. But it’s a different feeling when you put on a show. I mentioned Sleep and Sleep’s a good example. Doing that tour and watching, night after a night, a band that I love – and I’m part of the process of putting on that show – I feel pretty good about it.
MT: The 5th anniversary show is going to be one of the last shows at the Bakery before it closes this year – what are some of your favourite memories of that venue?
DC: Lots and lots of memories. Some really good dance music gigs, selling out Seekae there a couple of times, doing Slanted and Enchanted there was great. Seeing things like Jon Hopkins and that. Lots of good rock stuff, like the first Russian Circles time they came to Perth when it was chockers there and a really good lineup there as well of local bands that was fantastic. And not just my shows but other shows as well, I’ve loved being there. It hasn’t always been the easiest place to put on a show because of the nature of the organisation but it’s a great place and a great space and I think Perth is going to miss that venue, and I will personally, but I’m looking forward to having one last show there. I kind of thought New Year’s Eve would be the last show we have there but it’s nice to have Easter Thursday there as well because it’s a holiday the next day and people can have a big night.
MT: What drew you to the six acts that you’ve got performing at that show?
DC: I wanted a bit of variety and I wanted things that I like. Drowning Horse I love and they don’t play very often, mainly because their drummer lives in Melbourne, so we’re flying him out to Perth to play that show. They recently recorded a new record which sounds incredible and hopefully it will be released later this year so I’m looking forward to seeing those guys play because it doesn’t happen very often. Mt. Mountain I see every time they play in Perth because they’re just such a great band. They’re also in the midst of recording new stuff and hopefully taking it to the world because I think they’re a world class outfit and really should do very well when they get the new record out. Puck are just a really simple three-piece band that play noisy music and are well worth seeing. I enjoy playing their music on my radio show and it’s good for them to play live at this gig as well. Fait could be very successful as well. Elise Higgins used to come and help us out at life is noise a few years back and she told me that she had this post-rock project, and I was like, oh god, not another bloody post-rock project, I don’t need to listen to more post-rock – which I love – but I’ve just heard so much. And I listened to it and I thought, this is pretty good. Then I saw them play at their first gig and they were fucking incredible. I was really blown away at how the band translated that from Elise’s vision. Kaan played New Year’s Eve at the Bakery and were completely explosive and almost stole the show. They were great so it’ll be good to see them. They’re kind of heavy so it’ll be good to have one other heavy band to go with Drowning Horse. Chris Cobilis is a nut and I just love everything he’s done since I first saw the Tigers at the Grosvenor in the 1990s and his solo stuff is great as well. And Wil Bixler, I just wanted to have some dance music on the bill. He’s going to play a lot of jungle and I really like jungle, so he’ll play that and some gangster stuff, and that’ll be an interesting way to break it up from all this rock music as well. It’s kind of a diverse bill. There’s some heavy stuff and some rock stuff and some weird noise and other bits of pieces. Maybe it plots the history of the last five years of the music that life is noise has brought out, a bit of all sorts of things. I think it’ll be a good night to just come down and have a drink. I might buy a couple of drinks for people, or maybe they’ll buy them for me. But it’ll be fun.
MT: You mentioned before that you work with a lot of niche acts, and trying to balance that with financial constraints is always a struggle. If you could tour a band and not have to worry about money at all – if you could just bring a band to an Australian audience – who would that be?
DC: Wow. There’s a few but I’m sort of thinking about touring them anyway. I love Year of No Light but there’s six guys in the band and it’s super niche. So without completely losing a stack of cash, I’d love to do that. But it’s possible that that might happen. But someone’s going to have to lose money and it’s not going to be me. It’s always the bigger, the more bodies. There are stacks of bands that I’d like to bring out but the ones with six, seven, eight members make it more difficult. But some of those bands are more popular. When there’s a will there’s a way, I think for most of them, but some bands are just unfortunately too niche or just not popular enough to get a crowd to go and see them. And when you’re risking tens of thousands of dollars, it’s unfortunate you can’t do it. I can’t think of too many off the top of my head that are impossible at the moment, but certainly there are a few that are far more marginal. And unfortunately that means that I think a lot of our tours — and I’ve been talking about this for a while — but I think a lot of our tours will actually not come to Perth just because it’s just so expensive to get people here, and especially when you’ve got five, six people or more in the touring party, it becomes very difficult. But we’re looking to do some bigger and weirder and different things. I suppose in the last couple of years we’ve done lots of stoner stuff and metal and rock and we will this year as well, but I think from 2016 and beyond, the nature of the business is going to be a bit more varied. So whilst we will still do a lot of that kind of thing, and I hope we can continue to tour acts like Sleep and Russian Circles and Deafheaven and those kind of heavier acts that we’ve been touring – High on Fire and Earth, etcetera – I think 2016 onwards we’ll start diversifying a bit more and doing all sorts of things. I tend to get bored just doing one style of music, and whilst we’ve been pretty varied over the last couple of years, it’s all been heavier sort of things, so we’ll continue doing that, but we’ll do some other stuff as well. Maybe some world music. Maybe some jazz. Maybe some dance music, some indie rock. Who knows. But it will always be on the weirder end of the spectrum.
Come buy Cutter a beer (or maybe he’ll buy you one) at The Bakery tonight for our fifth anniversary with Drowning Horse, Mt. Mountain, Fait, Puck, Kaan, Chris Cobilis and DJ Wil Bixler. Tickers on sale through lifeisnoise.com. See you there.
New book alert: Drag City are releasing a collection of posters from the Louisville punk scene that birthed the likes of Slint and Bonnie “Prince” Billy. Though never as celebrated as a music capital the way Seattle, Nashville, New York or Chicago ever were, the Kentucky city played a pivotal role in the development of noise rock, hardcore and its others — names like Rodan, Squirrel Bait, June of 44, and more recently, Young Widows, Waxeater and Watter. Titled White Glove Test, the book brings together poster art from 1978–94 and is available for purchase at the Drag City website.
